Making their Mark in Australian Adult Cinema

By: Abby DivDate: Sept. 14, 2021

In Le Sex Lab's podcast we are talking about making a mark in Australian adult cinema. In the lab to chat about online content creation, building social media presence, and self-production are film stars Nova Hawthorne and Charlie Forde.

Abigail Div
Hello, everyone, we're going to be talking today about online content creation, building social media presence and producing adult cinema. I'm your host Abigail div, founder of Le Sex Lab, an experimental and media lab exploring sexuality. In today's interview, we'll explore the following: How did adult film stars Nova and Charlie get started? How is working within the niche Australian studio community? How to make the transition from studio work to independent content creation, and how large is actually leap from self created content to full scale production. With me today to talk about acting working in Australia and producing in an increasingly online world are Charlie Forde and Nova Hawthorne. Welcome Charlie and Nova.

Charlie Forde & Nova Hawthorne
Hi!

Abigail Div
Oh, well, wonderful.

Charlie Forde
How are you?

Abigail Div
Oh, we're at a 14 hour time difference. So my morning is your evening and your evening is is my morning. It's been a logistical challenge to say at least in terms of getting us all on together.

Charlie Forde
Your background was much more exciting than AV by like pitch black at the moment. And you're you're looking like you're enjoying the sunshine today.

Abigail Div
Yeah, it's a beautiful though, humid and muggy morning, on New York City skyline. So enjoying you while it's so cool, because it's not going to be for very long.

Charlie Forde
I'm so jealous, though. It's freezing here. Yeah, it was raining all day.

Abigail Div
Oh, that sounds in some ways, very romantic. But another way is very kind of depressing.

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, hailstones are not romantic. Yeah. So like, I can paint a beautiful picture of what it would look like. But I'm pretty sure that's not what you're looking at outside.

Abigail Div
Welcome to the podcast. To start with, I thought we'd chat about who you guys are in your background behind your work. So first, you both are models and actors, and those who are not intimately familiar with the industry, and all of its nuances. There's many kinds of adult modeling and acting. Charlie, you started working in media just about two years ago in 2019, both in video and photo. There's so many niches and definitely sexual interests that you can perform in. How did you get started?

Charlie Forde
So I came across a friend who was actually working for a bunch of different companies, and they actually recommended that I give it a go. And at the time, I was not ready, I found it very intimidating, to be you know, naked for the world to see in video and photos. So I actually took an entire year to do my research and make sure that I felt really comfortable with my decision to essentially have myself like nude on the internet for the rest of my life. That's not a small thing to kind of decide to bring into your life. And the year went past and I don't know what it was. I just felt really comfortable. And I went You know what, fuck it. I'm just gonna give it a crack. So I contacted some of the companies that they recommended starting out with more of the amateur really laid back Go companies, people like our Estes and Abby Winters, and Abby Winters was the first professional company that I shot with. And then I dabbled in porn for a couple of years with companies realized that it was really hard for Australia to make a career from companies because there are no companies here because of our really antiquated distribution laws. And then I just went you know, what, screw this, why am I relying on other people to build my career? I don't need to I can make my own stuff.

Abigail Div
Yes, certainly requires not only some ingenuity, but also as an interest, of course. So are there any prerequisites besides an interest to beginning?

Charlie Forde
Not really, at the end of the day, in the adult industry, there is something for everyone. And that's what I really love about the industry, there is a body type and a personality and an ethnicity that will be accepted somewhere in the adult industry. So I don't think there really is that much of a prerequisite except for a love of it. I think that some acting skills to a degree do help not from the sense that you're performing or you're playing a fake character on film, but I think it makes it much easier to portray emotion if you're used to being in front of a camera, or used to modeling before you actually do adult work.

Abigail Div
Sure, being comfortable in your own body is somewhat of a I wouldn't say it was a prerequisite but it certainly helps to feeling the level of competence and embodying the personality that you want to project onto video or film screen.

Charlie Forde
For sure. And when I film as well, I use a lot of method acting. So even if if I'm for example, doing a type of film where I have actually experienced that storyline. But I've experienced those feelings then I draw upon that in order to be able to try and make a more believable experience for people, which is a type of acting, but it still comes from a very honest place. So things like that do help. But ultimately, anyone can really get started if they want to. there's a there's a place for everyone in the adult industry, which is beautiful.

Abigail Div
Yeah, and speaking of acting Nova, you had slightly different entrance into the adult industry, and that you were a drama student, and you turn your attention from the theater stage to the online world. How did that all get started?

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, it's, uh, I'm not quite sure. It's as interesting as Charlie's story into the the lot of adult work, but um, it's it. Yeah, it's interesting going from an enthusiastic, confident young person, you know, pursuing theatre and drama, and the stage and then finding themselves in dance. And it was a whole nother media, of physical media on stage and performing with crowds and engaging in the audience. So from that, I found that from home, I could create this, I didn't have to be at a club or a theater or on a stage, I could be at home, in front of a camera on my own creating content. For me, for the people that want to see those particular niches and different fantasies they have that involve me, which was really exciting. online world is just like, nothing else. I really enjoy that more personalized experience.

Abigail Div
Yeah, you're literally taking the theater into your own home. It is particularly relevant, especially as we're talking 2021 in almost post pandemic days are most of the online media. It was once physical media and the stages now, streaming and screening and multimedia online. It's really come a long way even within just the last year based on the current global circumstances. So you've picked a good niche to specialize in.

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, and I think it was pandemic driven. But um, I think I must have predicted this future in the industry. So I jumped on about January before Coronavirus, was really a known thing and just just got on early and got in there and got started.

Abigail Div
Yeah, being an early adopter is definitely comes with its risk and risk and high return of course, as well. Speaking of risk and return, there are a lot of adult companies. But there's only a few when you think of Australian ones. There's girls out west there's FACA Radhika Abby winters, just to name a few of them. They're all known. But again, they're in some ways in their own space. Charlie, you started out actually working, as you were saying, with Abby winters, how was the experience working with such a known studio?

Charlie Forde
It was really interesting, because I think my experience is my experiences between different companies will vary a lot. So with some companies, I find it to be almost a little bit more clinical, their approach towards filming, they'll have really specific lists of shots that they want, they want a close up of a bat, and then they want a wide of a button and they want a close up of a pussy, and then they want a face shot, then they want a back shot. And the photographers and videographers have to tick off a bunch of things in order to be able to produce what the company wants. And then there are other companies that are a lot more organic, and now have like a general storyline that they want to follow. But it's not a set of a process. And there's a little bit more organic nature to it. So I find working for companies really interesting because it does change depending upon who you work for.

Abigail Div
Yeah, Nova you've done a lot of studio work as well starting off again, within the online world and Reddit and online forums and then progressively getting more involved. Did you know what to expect when you started shooting with studios?

Nova Hawthorne
Ah, I guess I don't jump into things lightly. I'm very much a researcher. So I definitely was on the forums looking at who is this company who works here? What are they known for? And who's worked with them and chatting to people who have shot with these companies or been involved in their projects? So definitely sussed out all of avenues and people's experiences before I agree to take part in something. For me, that's just ensuring that I'm going to be part of something that I'll look back on and go Yeah, I was part of that. And that was really great. I don't regret working on that project.

Nova Hawthorne
You're certainly doing your research and having your your checkboxes checked before you dive into something that's really a career changer is

Abigail Div
Yeah, it's definitely something that I would suggest anybody who's dabbling, to say the least into any line of work that you need to make sure that you, you know exactly what you're getting into.

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah.

Charlie Forde
Particularly within, particularly within the adult industry, when there's still, you know, some stigma attached to it, people really should understand what they're, you know, I mean, the world, the industry is a beautiful place. But we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't say there's still stigma around the work. So I think it's really important that people do that research before they jump head in.

Abigail Div
Yeah, most definitely. In terms of having done your research, and then also having produced with these companies, you've both done multiple movies with Australian based studios, I must mean some good things, right? If you're doing them multiple times, do you get cast for these? Or do you get to choose your roles at this point?

Charlie Forde
We're still, well, I don't know, I'm not I don't know if I can speak for Nova, but I'm still cast. So they still approach me. And although when you're sometimes on set, if you say, Oh, my God, this would be a great concept. Sometimes it'll sneakily pop up a couple of months later, for the most part, they normally have their own set processes that they like to follow. Which is why as much as I love working for companies, I also love working for myself, because then I get to explore all this the stuff that those companies aren't touching with me, which is kind of fun. Nobody find the same. Are you finding yourself be still getting casting calls for them? Or is there some amount of personalization or customization in the roles that you're playing?

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, yeah, I think I think the right word to put to it is personalization. like Charlie said, I agree. I think I've been on set and said, I'd love to get stuck in a washing machine. And yeah, a couple couple months down the line. I'm cast for a while where I'm stuck in a washing machine. It was a dream come true. But for sure, when you're starting with a small companies, I remember first going in first interview, I was asked, Do you have any special talents or special interests that you might like to include in a shoot? So I thought that was a cool space to be able to put down different things like I like this style of dance or I'm into this light out point. So like, if they want to film something where I'm using some light up equipment, how fun would that be?

Charlie Forde
I really when I when I answered that question. I didn't really think about it that much. And when they asked me that question, with girls out west i said i pole dance and I love to dance and then you know cut to three months later, they throw me into like a dance solo masturbation video where I had to like dance on my own solidly for like, the length of a song. I watched it back and I just I could not stop laughing because it is the funniest shit I've seen a long time. You have to be careful what you say to them because they'll latch on to it. If you say that you're into something

Abigail Div
It may not take exactly the interpretation that you intend it to as what it sounds like. Or you may get more than what you asked for. It was still so much fun, but my lot was funny to watch. Definitely like one of those learning series of what to ask and what you'll receive back in return. Maybe Maybe you build a new skill set is now a dancer to

Charlie Forde
Well, apparently my latest skill set is looking armpits is what I seem to have become known for bizarrely, I don't know if you found the same thing over because it's often when you and I are filming together actually. But I was on Twitch literally last night and some someone was on there. Talking about my armpit. I was like when did this happen? What did it become known as the armpit liquor? I'm fine with it. You're gonna be known for something that's a pretty good one to be known for. Yeah, that is much crazier things that I could be known for going on but looking.

Abigail Div
Well, you've also both and as you're saying co stars together. Did you know each other before you were on set with one another?

Nova Hawthorne
with Charlie approached me the first time we met. So I think the first day I met you I rocked up to shoot a scene with you, Charlie. And Hi. I'm going to be your scene partner today. So that was an interesting way to meet. But I feel like it was incredibly fun to meet someone the first day that have them on the kitchen counter.

Charlie Forde
Hell yes.

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah,

Charlie Forde
We just really well both on set and offset and over and I've hung out a lot outside of filming as well. And we're Just really good friends and get along. And it's like, so lovely that such a good friendship can come from that one time when I found you on the internet. And we're like, oh, she's really cute. And I think that I get along really well with her and I recommend would have so much fun if I can on camera. Look, I think

Nova Hawthorne
Charlie, I can't I can't say I haven't been scrolling through our social media and seeing that little picture of us kissing for for a video. And my think, Oh, isn't that so lovely? I get a woman while she's whenever I work with her. Oh, that's easy.

Abigail Div
You definitely have an intimacy with one another that feels very authentic and very genuine, which I think is, yeah, but the objective of the entire scenes that you're creating, to create some genuinely interesting sexual energy. And that definitely comes off in in the scenes that you making together.

Charlie Forde
I think that's the beauty of Australian porn, though, because we don't have a lot of companies. The industry, by and large is created by the performers that are in the industry, and is created by people choosing people that they want to shoot with, and finding a place to do it and then doing it. And there's not big budgets, necessarily. It is more indie or amateur. But the chemistry because we have so much control over who we are with and what we're doing. Like it's a whole other level compared to a lot of mainstream porn that I see. And I think that's why Australian porn is so unique and so revered, you know, it's kind of placed in its own category in the porn industry. And I think that that's part of the reason why people are so attuned to it.

Abigail Div
Yeah, I think there's there's definitely this feeling of, as you were saying personalization of the work that you're doing, and also the customization because you're working within a smaller subset of not only actors and actresses, and film companies, but also with each other. So there's a lot more developmentally that can happen in terms of relationships that you have with one another, as you end up working with one another, on a more routine basis, which is excellent for creating good content, good relationships with one another, which you both have. But shifting to your personal work, you're making and building, as you said, Nova and Charlie, both independent businesses, where you wear multiple hats, and delegate multiple tasks, somewhere to a lot of craters online, you become not only the talent, but the marketers, and the customer service and the content distributors as well. So having good time management skills are essential to understand not only the market, but also what's making it and breaking it much today online. And what products to get in front of the right eyeballs is the case maybe what made you step into making your own content, Charlie,

Charlie Forde
I just wanted to be shooting more than what companies could offer me realistically, it wasn't necessarily a money driven perspective, I think in Australia, you don't necessarily come into porn to make money because there's not a huge number of companies to work for. And you've got to think when I started this was the pre only fans pre just for fans time though, there weren't subscription sites that you could necessarily jump on, and sign up to be able to have your own content placed up. So at the time, there were only companies to try and approach and I just realized that I wasn't doing the thing that I wanted to do, because I just didn't have enough access to companies from my country. So I just went You know what, I'm just gonna do it myself. And it was just been an organic, slow small growth from me shooting my own stuff. And then you know, subscription sites coming up. I mean, putting content on there through to hiring a videographer every week, having makeup artists having boom operators, and then my more recent extension was into producing for external companies. So it's we've kind of snowballed into a place that I wasn't expecting but I'm really grateful for and this big plans for the next six months I guess, to to hit the next level, in my business anyway.

Abigail Div
Yes, certainly milestones of achievement. And Nova you also film and have your own production set at home. As a lot of content creators. Do you know being Twitchers and being streamers? Also making custom content? You hat you wear many different hats as well, what made you step into DIY all of your work?

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, making my own content made. made sense to me as a decision in going from dancing in in clubs and on stages to what's next for me out and creating content was next for me. And yeah, I did make the leap from from dancing to creating content for subscription sites, and the subscription site. They just jumped in. I had made social media content before but nothing like this. And I thought, yeah, let's let's do it. Let's jump in and it's evolved from that is It's funny scrolling back to when I first started producing my content, and see how it's changed in such a short amount of time. And my latest kind of thing I'm looking into is, is VR videos and custom custom movies in VR, I just think that's the coolest thing. And I cannot wait to start creating them. Because I can't think of many places you can go and make your own VR films. For order by someone who's asked for it.

Abigail Div
It's certainly the the market has changed a lot from what was a few hundred for a headset, and VR equipment to what is now you know, extremely accessible, as you know, once was cell phones, were free only those who had the money to spend on a mini computer is now accessible to the masses is the same thing as VR is what was once super niche technology has become much more open. So it's going to be interesting to see how VR porn evolves over time. And what people pick up in sort of trends, or, or not, from what it's currently being produced, as it is a different medium and insolvent has different capabilities in terms of what it can and cannot do online, and also the platforms that it's available on. Speaking of which, there's many ways you can share your content. And that's constantly shifting as platforms, gain popularity lose popularity, as a base, where did you start know by sharing your content? What sites what services?

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, yeah. Well, from humble beginnings on Reddit, I did use, I did use only fans as a platform. And I'm still using that now. And finding it. It's the structure of the site is is great. But I think, as these technologies change, and different websites become available, people are going to realize that there's different different formats to be putting your content onto you, and finding different creators. But at the moment, where I think it's kind of a time where it's at a tipping point, and seeing where content is able to be hosted. And where people gonna find it from, as well as things like complicated payment processes, where isn't always accessible to everyone, and is safe and sticks around. So for me platforms, the changing mediums I'm taking each day as it comes, because I'm not sure what's going to happen. What company is going to announce changes. So one day at a time, I say

Charlie Forde
Particularly at the moment, there's been a huge amount of legal reform and a lot of countries worldwide at the moment, you know, Australia just had an E safety bill passed that has the ability to potentially change the landscape of our adult industry and the worldwide adult industry. And we won't really know until we see it play out as to how the government is going to use that I know that America has been through some reforms relating to adult content. MasterCard, and visa have gotten very heavy handed in the way that they approach companies for and rightly so for illegal and child pornography content, but they've approached it in a very, non very discriminatory way. And not based upon the research that came out at the same time. And that's causing huge problems for certain sites, in the channels that they have in order to process payments. And then payment process. gateways in general, are just always so difficult. And they're always constantly trying to keep up with all these legal reforms. You know, the fact that the subscription sites at the moment, particularly the more major ones are going through difficulties with payment processes, and reviews of how content is created. And the forms that prove identity and consent, like it's an ever changing landscape. And so it's a really hard industry to work in and a lot of ways because you really have to be on your toes about all that legal shit. And you have to be able to work your business in a way that adapts and kind of goes with the flow with all of the changes.

Charlie Forde
I think you definitely need to be ready to jump ship, knowing that you may have to switch platforms at short notice, knowing that that's a real possibility that you you could be deep platformed

Abigail Div
Yes, never never guarantee when it comes to working, especially within porn and adult content, that your content is going to be able to stay online. Having the the challenge, if you will, and putting that lightly in terms of being able to distribute your content on social media platforms is already well known within content creation of you know, like, somebody whose hair is slipping and that's marked as being explicit content, it's becoming more and more restrictive. As it also things oscillate and open up again. And that's you know, mostly by social norms and behavior, and then also by what larger scale platform's have to cater to in terms of the masses, you know, and looking at, who's looking at what content where, and covering all their legal criteria so that they don't also have their wrist slapped. At the same time, it's not an easy balancing point to try and hit between the two things. So everyone wants to know, the secret sauce, if you will, the secret recipe for success online, you advertise an X and Y to drive traffic and purchase your content on z. But it's not that simple. And it's certainly not that straightforward and linear. Have you found Charlie that there is a recipe that works for you in terms of getting your content in front of the right people?

Charlie Forde
I don't think there's a recipe you can follow. Because Because the landscape changes all the time, you have to adapt what you're doing as well, I guess, I learned very early on that, if I'm gonna do something, well, I need to hire someone who knows how to do it. Well, to do it. For me, I know the value and not necessarily doing everything myself. And as much as it pains me to fork out a lot of money for other people to manage me from a marketing perspective, or a social media perspective, or, you know, building website perspective, I know that there's so much value in getting someone who's done it for 1020 years to do it for me, instead of me trying to do it on my own. So that's a secret that I use, which I don't know, if it's as much of a secret as using, you know, professionals in order to, to make my staff look the way that I would imagine it to look.

Abigail Div
Nova, but do you find the same in terms of resources and use of time management?

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, yeah, I totally resonate with what you just said, Absolutely. Finally, admitting that you can't do it all yourself, there comes a point where you need to start finding someone with more knowledge than what you have to be able to do something really well. But on my production side, I guess that's quite quiet just myself at the moment, and finding advice and expertise when I need it. But producing myself means I spend a lot of time reading and researching being very thorough, but then also distributing that information to help other small creators that may not have learned what I've already learned. So saving them a bit of time in the process,

Abigail Div
There's certainly something to be said about getting something out of the box versus having to build it from scratch and having that learning curve of not only teaching yourself the skills that you need, but also then realizing that there may be somewhere or someone who already has that skill set that you can really, you know, quasi outsource that work to, that can do it just as professionally as you can. And it's hard to come to terms in some ways, it's like the the cost of doing that because you're like, well, I can do it myself. I know how to use social media, I know how to tweet and and post And like and comment and and subscribe to things. But then you realize also, that's a lot of time. There's a lot of effort that goes into that, and somebody else may be able to do that for you as well. And that's not a bad thing. Well, speaking of managing and assessing your use of time, you both have grown your online presence and audiences over time. You're not only performers, social media mavens, but you're also producers and directors, stepping not only in front of the camera, but also behind it. Let's say though, that we take the hands of time, and we take them back to the moment when you were first producing, what scene would you shoot? What are some of your favorites from either customer requests or scripts that you've had in the past that you would decide I want to do that I would do that myself.

Charlie Forde
I've shot everything that I've wanted to shoot. And I always have a I have a list a little document that sits on my computer that I'm just slowly ticking my way through. So to be honest, I don't think if I ran back the hands of time, I'd do anything different because I've shot all of the things that I wanted to I remember when I first started all I wanted to do is shoot a six them with a bunch of friends and manage to kick that one off, for example, with chat was great fun. I whenever I get an idea, I tend to tackle it pretty full on it's just a matter of when it'll happen and having the right contacts. I find that often if I can't do it now, because there's a block with a location or a block with a performer I find that, you know, one month three months, six months later, the perfect person comes along that solves that issue and it's about the right place at the right time and the right people so I have plans to do my first feature film, which is going to be a ginormous undertaking. It's gonna cost me about 50 grand quietly. Um, but I'm really excited for that, but that's something that it's not really winding back the hand of time, it's in the process, but it's something that I've wanted to do from the very beginning that I'm working on.

Abigail Div
That's not a small undertaking, certainly from working with shorts and seen scripts says mini vignettes to feature length film is an entirely different level of production. So we're waiting with bated breath to see how that comes along. And the evolution maybe is a teaser to what's coming in the future. I'm waiting to see out comes along as well. Let's be honest. It's a big job. Yeah, it's no small undertaking to to make from, you know, very custom content to doing feature length work, which requires a much larger production company and set to obviously get off the ground. So it's it's exciting news to hear that that's going in the works. For sure. No, but let's say that budget is not an object. What would you include in a scene? Or who?

Charlie Forde
Oh, my goodness. Okay. I definitely Charlie Ford. is a nice as she points it herself, but I just I just had this novel idea that I know that on my phone in my notes section, I'm keeping a list of actors, characters, people that people say that I'm a doppelganger for. So I've got this giant list of about 15 people that say, you look like this person. And often I don't see it, but sometimes I go, okay, but secretly, they are all just redheads as my so there's that. But I think how fun would it be to produce something where I am cosplaying as every single one of these characters? is a mini series of Nova looks like this person. One of them is like a character from what is it? Jurassic World. So, so called cosplaying as someone from Jurassic World is very interesting, but I could if I could do something a bit more. A series of characters I think that would be really fun.

Abigail Div
I can already imagine that I have this image in terms of when you said cosplay just now have you like being Thelma from Scooby Doo? I don't know if you've ever been for that. But that would definitely be something you could cosplay.

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, yeah. I'm also inspired sometimes by my my outfits. My my, my fashion is quite varied. But I was wearing something quite comfy. And I go, Oh, this reminds me of the babysitter's clothes. The book, the books I used to read. Like, you know, what, what if we did a revisited version of, of it's inspired by this era?

Abigail Div
Oh, that would be excellent. You know, like the throwback to like the early 90s in like young adult novels, and cinema. Yeah, you can get all the Rom-coms to into that as well.

Nova Hawthorne
Absolutely.

Abigail Div
Oh, that's an excellent idea. Well, you know, maybe again, also a teaser for future content, and it's inspiring somebody else to to give you that big budget that you play.

Nova Hawthorne
Yeah, I hope so.

Abigail Div
Well, wonderful. And thank you both Charlie and Nova for joining me today to talk about social media, online presence and building your own content. Thank you both for taking the time and staying up late late. Melbourne, Australia and evening.

Nova Hawthorne
Thank you.

Charlie Forde
Thank you for having us.

Abigail Div
Wonderful. And if you like what you hear, join me again next time for another feature on Le Sex Lab.